The Challenge of Closed Minds

I was honoured recently to have three of my posts here also posted as a guest author on Submissive Guide. One of them had a comment on, that in my personal view actually highlighted the whole point of what I was saying in the post itself. Now, normally I would not take this further – I actually value peoples differing perspectives and views very much… but the comment was very well constructed  by a highly intelligent, openly vanilla woman and has me wanting to clarify a few things for my own peace of mind. I don’t want to carry on the discussion over at Subguide as it would be inappropriate, but I do want to clarify my own personal views and stance.

SO….

Here goes. If you want to read the post and all the comments regarding it (yeah, there was more than one comment from the same person) I suggest you dig it out.

1 October 2009 at 3:37 pm Finally I find the time to respond. I wondered if I should ask my husband to do that for me, but decided not to. Like I said in my first comment, there was no offense intended…I simply “dared” to say what I think. And I admire that she has the integrity and strength to question and voice her own opinions. I respect that a lot in people. I find sarcasm to be the lowest form of wit however and do not use it to debase other people’s beliefs. I find it offensive for others to do so to me.

To me the words “slave” and “slavery” is associated with cruelness rather than romance….the latter seem to be something you guys happen to discover in the books. Everybody has their own associations with words, for me slavery and slave refers to a mindset, not actions taken upon a person – a mindset. I understand that the term slavery has negative connotations for black Americans to name but one example that everyone will associate with, but does that devalue a black american who identifies as slave within their relationship dynamic? Also the books have a lot contained within them that you cannot ‘romance’ over. In the FICTIONAL Gor, slaves could lose their lives for not being pleasing enough. Slaves had no rights whatsoever and if their Master was cruel, there was not a damn thing they could do about it. I am going to list a few points here, and this will be my last comment.

1. The so called philosophy is based on natural order…something that has been mentioned by others before John Norman/Lange wrote his books about Gor. Yes, it was:  Han Herman-Hoppe and Freidrich Von Hayek are the most prominent modern day writers that stand out to me on this philosophy although both were writing from a pure business and economics perspective, not societal relationship dynamics. Plato however in my own mind was the founder of natural philosophy and Descartes theories around metaphysical dualism are also striking when read and digested. 2. The books have similarities with other books. Therefore he didn’t really had anything new to tell. No argument here! The books however were and still are great (albeit contraversial) works of fiction…

3. The fact that most women in the books had to be forced first, only to realize later that this is what they truly need seemed to me a little ridiculous. Thats called fictional licence! However, from experience of delving into the slave mindset (and my Master and others will correct me here I am sure) there are significant ‘challenges’ faced. Masters will push slaves to their limits, to grow within their identity, to explore that and delve deeper into their own understanding of themselves. A slave is a proud person at heart – they are proud of who they are and recognise the value of what they give freely. That process, of understanding yourself and being proud of what you are, can be very difficult in places – so we are pushed by our Masters to reach deeper. As parents we push and force children to learn to read and write because we know what is best for them and recognise a value that they are unable to at that point in their lives… would that be a little ridiculous also? I dont think so. 4. Sex played a huge role, just think of the many women which were brought to Gor and also the free women and how they changed after having their first slave orgasm…*Speaking of that, my man and have have incredible sex, yet I don’t feel like a slave afterwards* Orgasms are fantastic (Oliver moment here – please Sir can I have some more….lol) – but I cannot answer your point  – not because I agree, but because the submissive mindset has to be experienced, I cannot do it justice in words. What I can say is that it intensifies the experience and the surrendering aspect of that orgasm deepens it beyond measure, and yes, within vanilla relationships and sexual activities -  it is equally as incredible at times – but most definitely different to the point of being worlds apart! 5. The so called lifestylers all just take parts from the books which at the end, doesn’t really have much to do with the novels anymore….besides the so called philosophy they will have discovered between the lines……* I rather take somebody seriously that tells me he/she believes in it, yet he/she isn’t a master/slaves but believes that even without being such one could believe in this so called philosophy since it wasn’t just about the M/s part*. As a ’so called’ lifestyler… The books do not define the philosophy of natural order (refer to the earlier point), but what the novels  do is provide an ‘identity’ for us. Just as the term  homosexual provides an identity for people who find they are drawn to same sex relationships or transgender does to people who feel they have been born in the wrong body – or indeed does the word disabled for people who have a limiting physical or mental challenge. Labels are powerful concepts; what does the label British as opposed to English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh mean to people? Do they identify with one and not the other? Or do they find one defines them better and gives them a commonality of purpose and values they do not feel elsewhere?  Or do they distinctly not associate themselves with one? For me, to call myself kajira defines me apart from a slave or other type of submissive. We are one and the same at the core… but there is subtle differences between us that set us apart – for someone to use the term submissive as opposed to slave defines their personal mindset… but we are still the same on basic levels. The fiction books provide an encompassing label for us that is all, one that we can use when we feel alone in this world and without others of our kind. 6. I begun to work with people, mostly women, back in the 80’s….BDSM already existed, and I listened to many people and their stories which all were based on their kinks/fetishes…..interestingly Gor was never mentioned although the first book was published in the 60’s….*that brings me back to my statement that without the Internet the so called Gorean lifestylers wouldn’t exist*. Possibly there would not be as many open about the lifestyle… They were most certainly there (although I was a child in the 80’s!) and I was introduced in person to the Gorean lifestyle in the early ’90’s. The internet just allows free discussion regarding the subject in places such as Gor Chronicles where we feel safe to discuss openly with likeminded people without being judged. (my own username there is dreamweaver123)

7. The fact that a slave doesn’t worth more than an animal and therefore the owner can do with “it” whatever he wants..including the beating/selling…* I have to add here that I would not even punish my dogs with my hand or a tool, and it is sad enough that people still do such….not just to their animals but also to their kids* A slave has the same rank as an animal, But… Is a Master’s most treasured possession. A Gorean Master is not cruel, nor are they stupid. This sentence, which is rife throughout the books only illustrates a point – that of emphasizing a slave’s power to make decisions – we have only one basic decision to make – obey or not. By choosing to disobey, we choose to disappoint our Master and consequently be punished for such. Punishment comes in many forms however, the most effective of which are not physical.  my Master loves me very much, as I do him – but that would not and should not stop him from setting limits to my behaviour or rules to be abided by. I know my place in this relationship and what is acceptable or not. A dog is trained to walk to heel – a child is trained to use a toilet – I am trained to be a source of joy and pleasure… whats the difference?

8.It has never been easy for me to understand that somebody would get pleasure out of being physically punished….but the fact that a woman gives a man the control to do such whenever he thinks it is necessary, yet she claims to fear such punishment, is something I don’t understand at all. I wonder what these women would tell a women that has been physically punished because her husband wasn’t pleased with the way she did certain things. Pain is pain, but should not be confused with punishment. Abuse and violence unfortunately do exist within the BDSM and Gorean communities and should not be tolerated by anyone, lunaKM has a great post on this subject here and I suggest you read it. That said…. There are many people out there who enjoy certain levels of pain as kink – as part of play – myself included. I do not like it as a form of punishment however, and there is a huge gaping cavern of difference between the two. What levels of pain I can take before breaking as punishment and levels I enjoy as play are significantly different. Also, not all punishment is physical – painful or otherwise. the most effective punishments for me are never physical. DO NOT confuse a kink for pain and pain as punishment

8. It makes me chuckle to read the so called (Gorean) slaves say that they are aware of the fact that these books are entertainment only and that Gor doesn’t exist but yet they call themself “Kajira” although it is a Gorean word and therefore a non existing language. A little contradictory, huh. Probably, but no more so than calling myself Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ. After all, what is a Christian – someone who believe that a Man may or may not have existed 2,000 years ago? Ask any theologian, The bible is the greatest and most well read work of fiction on the planet. (and I am a practicing Christian by the way)  …. Less contraversial ‘word’ wanted? Okay, how about Google? Tesco? Blog? All words that have been ‘created’ by society. (Isn’t that how language evolves)

9. Although I am not even slightly interested in anything that is part of BDSM I must admit that I rather respect a person that admits his kinks/fetishes than somebody that doesn’t dare to do so but rather base such on a philosophy. In my point of view the so called Goreans are nothing but kinky people who doesn’t have the guts to admit that. I am Gorean, I am a Christian, I am a mother, I am a very kinky person…. I have the guts to admit who I am. I am also a whole raft of other labels if it makes people feel better to pigeon hole me. However.  All Gorean lifestylers have one basic thing in common. We know who we are, we are true to ourselves and have the honour and integrity to not compromise our values. We are also from my own experiance, often very productive members of society. 10. Besides…a philosophy is something one truly believes in and in such a case would want his kids to learn about it and believe in it as well…..your so called Gorean philosophy and the things you feel the need to share with others online is a kink/fetish….nothing more or less. I have no problem with my children learning the tenets of natural order as they grow – but at the appropriate level and pace. The base tenent is Know Thyself. However, the most fundamental principles of Gorean philosophy are ones of truth, respect, honour, integrity. Standing up for what you believe and not trying to be something you are not or compromising your principles just to appease others. If by learning and growing in a Gorean lifestyle environment means my children will take just those basic principles into adulthood and society, I will be very proud of them. Sex although in the books was not in the majority of the discussions at all – the underpinning philosophy was. If my children identify themselves as having a kink as adult, or as vanilla that is their choice as adults. As long as they are truthful to themselves I cannot ask for more.  I should also add that just as children growing in loving, vanilla environments do not see what happens behind closed doors – neither do any children growing in any other environment that is loving. In that sense..I wish you well. and here endeth my rant. A footnote from Master Aeros Wraithe: My kajira, dina, though a kajira in many ways her own person when it comes to dealing with work, friends and her own children. I do not expect her to be shy, bashful or fearful of the world when she and I are apart. I expect her to be the brash and bolshy, loving and caring individual that I also know her to be. As a Master, I know that there has to be balance in all things, regardless of circumstance or situation. It is my responsibility to teach and guide her in the best way possible, while treating her in the way she knows she deserves. Also, it is my responsibility to know when my actions or commands may be detrimental to her wellbeing emotionally, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Being closed minded in the Gorean lifestyle I have seen time and time again. Yet there are many more that are open-minded and grow from the journey while those that are narrow sighted wither and leave Gor. Yes, it can be infuriating to argue with those in Gor that cannot see past their own perspective and stubborn to the point of being ignorant, but it is just like what you would find in normal vanilla society. Among the ripe, crisp apples you shall always find some grandma smiths’. My kajira is not a mat nor a doorstop, but intelligent, very loving and yet also very emotional and sensitive. I cannot clearly say or describe the qualities within her that fills me with pride everyday. Yet my kajira even when she makes mistakes and gets punished, she knows just how much she means to me within our relationship. For I would never lay an angry hand upon her as an act of punishment. Nor would I ever physically or verbally take a bad day out upon her. For then I would be less than a Gorean, hot blooded male. I would be an animal, not worth respect, honour, loyalty or her unconditional love. What fiction is in the Gorean novels are that, but within there is much to be taken from the vast passages of prose. Closed mindedness has no place in Gor, nor should have a place in a Master and kajira relationship.